Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him): Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him) — in refutation of one who denied the Creator, whose majesty is glorious, because he supposed that everything is perceivable through the five senses, and that if [the Creator] existed He would have to be perceived through them — said: I said, "Tell me, do the people of your lands know anything of the science of the stars?" He said, "You are heedless of the knowledge of the people of my lands regarding the stars; no one is more learned in it than they are." He said: I said, "Tell me, how did they come by knowledge of the stars, when the stars are among the things that are perceived neither by the senses nor by thought?" He said, "By a reckoning which the wise men (the scholars) established and passed down as an inheritance to the people. So when you ask one of their scholars about a thing, he takes the measure of the sun and considers its state and the state of the moon, and what of misfortunes is manifest in the constellations and what of good fortunes is hidden in them, and then he calculates, and concerning the child he does not err; he informs of every mark that is in that child without ever having seen him." I said, "How does calculation enter into the births of people?" He said, "Because all people are born only under [the reckoning of] these stars; and for this reason, once the hour, the day, the month, and the year in which the child is born are known, the calculation does not go astray." I said, "You have described an astonishing science; if it is true as you have said, there is nothing in the world more precise or greater than it. As you say, by this [science] the little child comes into the world, and his marks and the time of his death and what will befall him in his life are known. Is this not a calculation by which all the people of the world — whoever exists among mankind — are born?" He said, "I have no doubt of it." I said, "Come, let us look with our intellects into whether it is right that people should have learned this from one another, that people are born under these stars." If you say, "The scholars are the very ones who established this calculation, and the courses of these stars became known, and the ill-omened stars were distinguished from the auspicious, and the near from the far, and the slow from the swift, and their positions in the sky and beneath the earth [became known] — six of them shining in the sky and six hidden beneath the earth, and likewise the seven planets move according to the reckoning of these stars" — the heart will not accept, and the intellect will not indicate, that a creature of the earth could have such mastery over the sun as to know in which constellation it is, and in which constellation the moon is, and in which these misfortunes and good fortunes are, and when the rising and when the setting occur — while they (the stars) are suspended in the sky, and [some are] beneath the earth, and when the sun's light veils them the [earthly being] does not see them. Unless it be supposed that this wise man ascended to the sky and there came to know these things. Then I said, "Suppose [the wise man] did go up to the sky — is there any way for him but to travel along with each one of these constellations and stars, from where it rises to where it sets, then move on to the next and do the like, until he has gone through the last of them? For some of them traverse the sky in thirty years, and some in less than that. And is there any way for him but to roam through the regions of the sky until he knows the rising-points of their auspicious and their ill-omened stars, and is certain of them? And suppose he could do all that, until he was done with what is in the sky — would the reckoning of what is in the sky hold for him, so that he could establish the reckoning of what is in the earth and what is under it, and know it as he had seen with his own eyes in the sky? You already know that the courses [of the stars] under the earth are on a different pattern from their courses in the sky, and that their reckoning and their fine details cannot be known except by knowing that of them which is hidden. For it is fitting that one know at what hour of the night the rising one rises, and at what hour of the night the setting one sets and is hidden; and it is not right for the student of this knowledge to be alone [in it] if the reckoning is to be correct. And how is that possible for him, while they (the stars) are under the earth and he is on its surface, unable to see what is beneath it? Unless it be supposed that this wise man entered into the darknesses of the lands and the seas, and travelled with the stars and the sun and the moon in their courses just as he had travelled in the sky, until he saw with his own eyes what of them lies under the earth, as he had seen what of them lies in the sky." He said, "Did I say to you that anyone ascended to the sky and had power over it, that you should say he entered the earth and the darknesses, and even beheld the stars and their courses?" [The Imam said:] I said, "Then how did this science, which you supposed the scholars established, come about? And all people are born under it, and how did they come to know this reckoning — and it (the reckoning) is older than they are?" He said, "What I find correct to say is: that each of the people learned the knowledge of these stars suspended in the sky through the teaching of another." I said, "Then you must say: this [science] was taught to him by a wise being who knows the affair of the sky and the earth and is its Manager." He said, "If I said this, then I would have acknowledged the Allah whom you claim. And I only know that this reckoning [of this science] must have a teacher. And if I were to say that one of the people of the earth learned this without a teacher from among the people of the earth, that would be a false statement. But the knowledge of the earth is with us only through the senses, whereas the knowledge of the senses does not attain to the stars, which are suspended — sometimes hidden [so that they cannot be perceived by the senses] and sometimes rising; they run beneath the earth as they run in the sky. The senses do no more than look at the rising one when it rises and at the setting one when it sets. As for their reckoning and their fine details and their auspicious and their ill-omened and their swift and their slow — that the senses have no power to grasp." I said, "Tell me: if you were a learner and seeker of this reckoning, would you rather have it described to you and learn it from one of the people of the earth, or from one of the people of the sky?" He said, "From the people of the sky, since the stars are suspended in it, of which the people of the earth have no knowledge." I said, "Then reflect with the finest attention, and let not caprice overcome you. Do you not know that when the people of the world are born under [the reckoning of] these stars, [then] the stars existed before mankind? Once you acknowledge that, it becomes broken for you to take the knowledge of them from a scholar among them, when the scholar — and they — were born under [the reckoning of] the stars after them, and the stars were created before them." He said, "Yes." I said, "And likewise the earth was before them?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Because had the earth not been created, it would not have been possible for people or any other creatures to be upon it — unless they had wings — since there would be no settled place for them to take refuge in, nor any dwelling for them to return to. And likewise the celestial sphere existed before the stars and the sun and the moon, for were it not for the sphere, the constellations would not revolve, and would not rise at one time and descend at another." He said, "Yes, it is as you have said. I acknowledge that the Creator of the stars under whose [reckoning] people are born is the Creator of the sky and the earth, for had there been no sky and no earth, there would be no revolution of the sphere. It is not fitting that your intellect should fail to guide you to the fact that He who created the sky is the same as He who created the earth and the sphere and the revolution and the sun and the moon and the stars." He said, "I bear witness that the Creator is one. But I do not know how they arrived at this reckoning until they knew it, and at this cycle and its correctness. Were I to know of the reckoning what you know, I would confess my ignorance, and that would be easier for me — but I want you to add for me further explanation." I said, "I shall inform you by way of this myrobalan (ihlilaja) that is in your hand, and by way of the medicine which is your craft and the craft of your fathers." Up to his statement: [The Imam said:] [The man] said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, alone, having no partner; and that He is the Creator of the deadly poisons and the ravaging vermin, and of all plants and trees, and their Planter and Grower, and the Fashioner of bodies, and the Driver of the winds, and the Subjugator of the clouds; and that He is the Creator of the diseases that stir in man, like the deadly poisons that flow in his limbs and bones, and [He is] the settler of the diseases and of the remedies that cure them; He knows the spirit, and the flow of the blood and its divisions in the veins and its connection with the nerves and the limbs and the sinews and the body; and He knows what of heat and cold reforms it (the body), and He is knowing of every limb and what is in it; and He is the One who set these stars and their reckoning, and He is the Knower of them, and the One who indicates their ill-fortunes and good fortunes, and what will come of the newborns; and the governance is one, it does not vary; it is continuous between the sky and the earth and what is in them. [The governance] is joined together."